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Title : "It doesn't really matter what I believe or anyone else believes."
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"It doesn't really matter what I believe or anyone else believes."

On "State of the Union," yesterday morning, Jake Tapper talked to Terry McAuliffe about the Ralph Northam problem. Transcript. Video:



McAuliffe was the governor of Virginia just before Northam, and Northam was his lieutenant governor, so McAuliffe could not avoid vouching for the man he was there to denounce. And with Northam having made such a fool of himself saying one thing and then another, it was important for McAuliffe to sound competent and lucid as he put together the argument that Northam has to go. That didn't happen:

TAPPER: Northam is now saying it's not him in the photo. Do you believe him?

MCAULIFFE: It doesn't really matter what I believe or anyone else believes.

Why not?!! It's Tapper's first question. You're going to say it's a bad question? You're on the show for a reason. You worked closely with Northam. Help us out here! Was he confused? Is he a liar? We want to know what to believe, and you're telling us it doesn't matter what we believe?

When this first came out Friday afternoon, and I -- and, Jake, when you invited me on the show, I, in my wildest dreams, never thought you and I would be having this conversation.

Huh? Why does he think he's on the show if not to help us understand Northam, and now you want to tell us you won't address the subject? (Also, I'm distracted imagining what goes on in Terry McAuliffe's "wildest dreams.")

So, when the photo came out Friday afternoon, when it was sent to me, I said there is absolutely no way that Ralph Northam is in this picture. And then, Friday evening, it came out that Ralph indeed was -- he said he was in the picture. At that point, for me, morally, the only right thing to do -- and it was hard. I called Ralph on Friday night. It was one of the hardest things I had to do, was my lieutenant governor. We worked closely together. We did so many great things working together for the Commonwealth of Virginia. But once that picture with the blackface and the Klansman came out, there is no way you can continue to be the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

So McAuliffe told Northam he had to resign. Noted. But that was when McAuliffe was believing it was a photograph of Northam. What does he think now? How can it not matter whether that's Northam in the photograph?

We have had a horrible and sordid past as it relates to race relations. We have worked very hard, Ralph and I, over the last five years to move the state forward. If you remember, in 1902, a state senator said that I'm putting a felon disenfranchisement in our Constitution -- quote -- to eliminate "the darkey" from being a political factor in Virginia. I was proud to, 114 years later, give those felons their rights back. But we have worked hard in Virginia. So, this is -- I have got to tell you, it's heartbreaking. And it's been one of the worst 48 hours. But Virginia needs to come out of this stronger. I can't sit here and pretend and be in the steps of those individuals who have been offended by those photos.

So it does matter what people think or are you still saying it doesn't matter whether or not it's a photograph of Northam. Tapper asks the right question. See if you can find McAuliffe's answer:

TAPPER: ... if it's not him in the photo, which is what he's saying, why do you still think he should resign?

MCAULIFFE: Well, first, he said it was Friday night. And, if it wasn't him in the photo, he should have said that on Friday. I have no idea what was going on in the governor's office on Friday. I just -- if you are not in -- instinctively, you know if you put black paint on your face. You know if you put a hood on. And so, if it isn't you, you come out with -- immediately and say, this is not me.

That sounds as though he's saying he doesn't believe Northam, but he said it doesn't matter what he believes, so what's the answer to Tapper's question. Why do you still think Northam should resign.

So, I can't understand what's going on. But I do know this. Ralph is a good, moral, decent man, and may have made some mistakes in his past. We all have made mistakes. Ralph will do the right thing for the Commonwealth of Virginia. He will put Virginia first. And I think that will happen relatively soon. He's worked hard. Thanks to Ralph's efforts, we got Medicaid expansion done.

So Ralph's a great guy he will do the right thing. Why should such a wonderful fellow resign?

But we have to move on. You cannot be the moral leader....

Why?! He's  "a good, moral, decent man" who's done great things for the state, but he "cannot be the moral leader." McAuliffe's idea seems to be that because Virginia's history of race relations is so horrible, Northam must sacrifice himself:

MCAULIFFE: I know Ralph very well... And if Ralph is watching this today, I know how much he loves this Commonwealth of Virginia. And you have got to make the right decision. You have got to make the right moral decision. We have to bring people together. We have had a horrible history in Virginia. He and I, working together -- and he chaired the child cabinet that I formed with my wife to feed needy children. He's done so many great things. It's not about Ralph anymore. This is about who we are as Virginians and how we move forward.... We have to move Virginia forward.... And, as I say, he will be remembered for so many great things, but he will also be remembered, in a time of need, that he chose the right moral course for Virginia, and he resigned, and we moved forward.

TAPPER: I know that the Ralph Northam you know in your words is a good man.... But has he also been a racist?

MCAULIFFE: I have zero indication of that. As I say, family doctor, had military service, had been a state senator, ran for lieutenant governor, and literally at my side. I mean, we made historic investment in K-12 to make sure that underserved schools had the right teachers, and, as I say, to make sure every child had a nutritious breakfast, working with my wife, Dorothy, on that. When I did the restoration of rights, and was sued by the Republicans to stop me from doing it, Ralph was always at my side. So I can't answer it, Jake. I'm telling you, I'm heartbroken. I don't know how -- I mean, I have been -- it is -- on Friday, I just don't -- I can't explain to you my feeling. But it doesn't matter how Terry McAuliffe feels. That photo that was in that yearbook was so offensive to the African-American community, that I can't be in their shoes. And we have just got to get past this....

The photo was so offensive — and McAuliffe can't be in African-American shoes — so Northam — though he's a fine governor and maybe not even the man in the photograph — must resign. That's the "logic."

On "State of the Union," yesterday morning, Jake Tapper talked to Terry McAuliffe about the Ralph Northam problem. Transcript. Video:



McAuliffe was the governor of Virginia just before Northam, and Northam was his lieutenant governor, so McAuliffe could not avoid vouching for the man he was there to denounce. And with Northam having made such a fool of himself saying one thing and then another, it was important for McAuliffe to sound competent and lucid as he put together the argument that Northam has to go. That didn't happen:

TAPPER: Northam is now saying it's not him in the photo. Do you believe him?

MCAULIFFE: It doesn't really matter what I believe or anyone else believes.

Why not?!! It's Tapper's first question. You're going to say it's a bad question? You're on the show for a reason. You worked closely with Northam. Help us out here! Was he confused? Is he a liar? We want to know what to believe, and you're telling us it doesn't matter what we believe?

When this first came out Friday afternoon, and I -- and, Jake, when you invited me on the show, I, in my wildest dreams, never thought you and I would be having this conversation.

Huh? Why does he think he's on the show if not to help us understand Northam, and now you want to tell us you won't address the subject? (Also, I'm distracted imagining what goes on in Terry McAuliffe's "wildest dreams.")

So, when the photo came out Friday afternoon, when it was sent to me, I said there is absolutely no way that Ralph Northam is in this picture. And then, Friday evening, it came out that Ralph indeed was -- he said he was in the picture. At that point, for me, morally, the only right thing to do -- and it was hard. I called Ralph on Friday night. It was one of the hardest things I had to do, was my lieutenant governor. We worked closely together. We did so many great things working together for the Commonwealth of Virginia. But once that picture with the blackface and the Klansman came out, there is no way you can continue to be the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

So McAuliffe told Northam he had to resign. Noted. But that was when McAuliffe was believing it was a photograph of Northam. What does he think now? How can it not matter whether that's Northam in the photograph?

We have had a horrible and sordid past as it relates to race relations. We have worked very hard, Ralph and I, over the last five years to move the state forward. If you remember, in 1902, a state senator said that I'm putting a felon disenfranchisement in our Constitution -- quote -- to eliminate "the darkey" from being a political factor in Virginia. I was proud to, 114 years later, give those felons their rights back. But we have worked hard in Virginia. So, this is -- I have got to tell you, it's heartbreaking. And it's been one of the worst 48 hours. But Virginia needs to come out of this stronger. I can't sit here and pretend and be in the steps of those individuals who have been offended by those photos.

So it does matter what people think or are you still saying it doesn't matter whether or not it's a photograph of Northam. Tapper asks the right question. See if you can find McAuliffe's answer:

TAPPER: ... if it's not him in the photo, which is what he's saying, why do you still think he

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should resign?

MCAULIFFE: Well, first, he said it was Friday night. And, if it wasn't him in the photo, he should have said that on Friday. I have no idea what was going on in the governor's office on Friday. I just -- if you are not in -- instinctively, you know if you put black paint on your face. You know if you put a hood on. And so, if it isn't you, you come out with -- immediately and say, this is not me. That sounds as though he's saying he doesn't believe Northam, but he said it doesn't matter what he believes, so what's the answer to Tapper's question. Why do you still think Northam should resign.

So, I can't understand what's going on. But I do know this. Ralph is a good, moral, decent man, and may have made some mistakes in his past. We all have made mistakes. Ralph will do the right thing for the Commonwealth of Virginia. He will put Virginia first. And I think that will happen relatively soon. He's worked hard. Thanks to Ralph's efforts, we got Medicaid expansion done.

So Ralph's a great guy he will do the right thing. Why should such a wonderful fellow resign?

But we have to move on. You cannot be the moral leader....

Why?! He's  "a good, moral, decent man" who's done great things for the state, but he "cannot be the moral leader." McAuliffe's idea seems to be that because Virginia's history of race relations is so horrible, Northam must sacrifice himself:

MCAULIFFE: I know Ralph very well... And if Ralph is watching this today, I know how much he loves this Commonwealth of Virginia. And you have got to make the right decision. You have got to make the right moral decision. We have to bring people together. We have had a horrible history in Virginia. He and I, working together -- and he chaired the child cabinet that I formed with my wife to feed needy children. He's done so many great things. It's not about Ralph anymore. This is about who we are as Virginians and how we move forward.... We have to move Virginia forward.... And, as I say, he will be remembered for so many great things, but he will also be remembered, in a time of need, that he chose the right moral course for Virginia, and he resigned, and we moved forward.

TAPPER: I know that the Ralph Northam you know in your words is a good man.... But has he also been a racist?

MCAULIFFE: I have zero indication of that. As I say, family doctor, had military service, had been a state senator, ran for lieutenant governor, and literally at my side. I mean, we made historic investment in K-12 to make sure that underserved schools had the right teachers, and, as I say, to make sure every child had a nutritious breakfast, working with my wife, Dorothy, on that. When I did the restoration of rights, and was sued by the Republicans to stop me from doing it, Ralph was always at my side. So I can't answer it, Jake. I'm telling you, I'm heartbroken. I don't know how -- I mean, I have been -- it is -- on Friday, I just don't -- I can't explain to you my feeling. But it doesn't matter how Terry McAuliffe feels. That photo that was in that yearbook was so offensive to the African-American community, that I can't be in their shoes. And we have just got to get past this....

The photo was so offensive — and McAuliffe can't be in African-American shoes — so Northam — though he's a fine governor and maybe not even the man in the photograph — must resign. That's the "logic."

Thus articles "It doesn't really matter what I believe or anyone else believes."

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